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Sail & Rigging - Swan 411 staysail
20 July 2020 - 18:21
#1
Join Date: 20 July 2020
Posts: 4

Swan 411 staysail

As a new owner of Swan 411 I'm pleased with performance of the boat, I however feel that the boat (given that it has quite a big rig) could use a staysail in bit stronger winds (25-30knts and above) when sailing close hauled.

 

Then the questions:

-There is a track on the foredeck, can it be used for inner forestay + staysail? (now there is a removable inner forestay with a Wichard ratchet, which I would like to keep)

-If the track can be used, and as it is rather long, which position would be the best for a staysail in such wind conditions? (Where to start iterating with the sailmaker)

-Possible sail plan for such force 6-7 winds?

-Does anybody have an experience on 411 staysail setup?

-Or some other alternative advice?

21 July 2020 - 08:51
#2
Join Date: 02 January 2008
Posts: 1410

Dear TapioF

The track can be used for an inner forestay, and the recommendation is that the slider should then be near the forepeak bulkhead, which provides some support for the deck. Originally there was a small tackle pulling the slider forward thereby tensioning the stay.
 
The sailplan on Matteo's webside does not show a storm jib, but I found one with such information, will be uploaded
Kind regards
Lars

21 July 2020 - 08:59
#3
Join Date: 29 January 2007
Posts: 803

Dear Lars and Tapio,

new Sail Plan (thanks Lars) it's now online.

Fair winds!

matteo (47/069 Vanessa)

22 July 2020 - 07:17
#4
Join Date: 20 July 2020
Posts: 4

Thank you Lars and Matteo, the uploaded sail plan including original sail/reefing suggestion is great!

 

According to the plan what I'm after is something like Jib #3-4, which in the plan is attached to the forestay where I have a furling genoa. The storm jib, as Lars mentioned, is attached to the inner forestay, but storm jib is bit too small for my purpose. What I'm looking is a sail that could be used in a removable inner forestay while the genoa is furled. 

I attached a picture of the track, and have some assorted questions

If the cart in the track is moved forward the sail area could be increased, but then the inner forestay is no longer parallel to the forestay. Would that cause problems in the sail design?

In the sail plan storm jib seems such that the cart in the track is all they way aft. Inside the boat there is a pole/rod which I guess is proving extra support for this. Is this right?

Third item in the picture is a heavy duty pad eye in the front of the track. What is the original purpose of this?

 

Br,

Tapio

22 July 2020 - 11:10
#5
Join Date: 02 January 2008
Posts: 1410

Dear Tapio

The Offshore Special Regulations specify how big a storm jib can be, and it is likely that you need something bigger for your purposes - hard weather jib is maybe a better name.
The inner forestay must not be parallel with the headstay, discuss with your sailmaker.
The tie rod at the aft end of the track is not standard, and not shown in the drawings or specifications, maybe a previous owner has noted that the deck flexes.
Do other 411s have such a tie rod? Owners pls inform
 
The pad eye at the bow is intended for the spinnaker foreguy blocks.
Kind regards
Lars

22 July 2020 - 16:02
#6
Join Date: 20 July 2020
Posts: 4

Hello Lars,

 

Thank you for a swift reply. I have had the boat less than a year so there are still lot of things to learn. I took a liberty checking other 411 interiors online, it seems that all of them have similar pole (attached six different 411 pictures that I could find all showing it). However as the end of it is hidden under the roof boards I just assumed it is a tie rod, or it has has a tie rod inside (I must admit that I didn't give more attention to it before this). Maybe it has other purpose?

Would be interesting to hear other 411 owners comments.

24 July 2020 - 06:21
#7
Join Date: 02 January 2008
Posts: 1410

Tapio

Thank you för checking the 411 photos, indeed there are boats with this feature.
A guess is that this occurs on higher hull numbers
Picture 5 probably shows an anchor chain tube, as it is bigger and slightly inclined
Kind regards
Lars

24 July 2020 - 07:18
#8
Join Date: 06 January 2012
Posts: 57

Hi, we have a slightly different but original staysail arrangement in our 431 CAID, hope it might help you to describe it's construction.

At the deck level teres a small grp box built in the foredeck. In the box lies a aluminium handle to tighten the removable staysail.

Inside the boat in the forepeak theres a strong SS pipe bolted to the aftside of the grp box. At the lower end of the pipe there is a rigging screw that attaches to the lower edge of a strongly laminated bulkhead with an u-bolt. This pipe also leads the water out of the boat just above the waterline.

Please check out the picture, it was taken this spring after the renovation of the forepeak was finally finished. The teak box covering the grp deck box is not assembled at that stage.

Our Yacht is located at Turku, You're welcome to visit to find out the details if You dont find any 411 owners to help You. Godd luck with Your new Yacht!

IHe

431-12 CAID

29 July 2020 - 07:07
#9
Join Date: 20 July 2020
Posts: 4

Hi IHe,

 

It is interesting to see bit different designs of almost same size and age Swans. The grp box (compared to a track) makes it more clear to decide where to attach the inner forestay :D.

 

Have you been using a staysail in you 431, if yes how did it perform?

 

Tapio

 

btw. the forepeak looks good!

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