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Sail & Rigging - New S&S Swan 41
07 April 2011 - 11:40
#1
Join Date: 01 January 2011
Posts: 36

New S&S Swan 41
Dear Forum, congratulations on having such a supportive and informed group. It has made my journey to buying Scotch Bonnet 41/039 a much easier one and entered with more confidence than would otherwise have been possible. I saw the earlier thread from a disappointed potential purchaser who missed out, if any consolation she has just completed a full osmosis treatment and is now having her deck replaced, the latter job was neither anticipated at the time of the survey nor budgeted for! I have been asked by the yard to decide whether to replace the forward hatch. I have seen elsewhere some have chosen to replace with Goiot or Lewmar. There is no apparent leaking from the hatch, is it recommended to replace the old sliding hatches just for aesthetic reasons or to have a clearer fore deck or have others done this because they leak eventually and are then best replaced rather than repaired? I like the design of the original hatch but if it is just a matter of time before it will need replacing I should bite the bullet now whilst the deck is being done. Any opinions much appreciated.
Andrew

07 April 2011 - 12:17
#2
Join Date: 30 January 2007
Posts: 461

Andrew,
first of all, welcome in the club!
Regarding the hatch, you will find different positions each with its own rationale. I would say that, at the end, the choice is more based on personal taste than on real issues: the life span and sea worthiness of the ones you cite (original included) is very similar.
My personal belief is that the original design matches perfectly the boat so I will keep reproducing it all or in part whenever needed.

Daniel, 411/004

07 April 2011 - 23:56
#3
Join Date: 05 February 2007
Posts: 102

Dear Andrew,

Congratulations to you, and Welcome! For what it's worth, completely agree with Daniel regarding the hatches. Having the originals, can only report leakage when having been remiss in closing the latches down completely when encountering heavy weather. Wishing you a wonderful 1st season, as it is always one to remember! And it only gets better!!!

Jayne 47/047

08 April 2011 - 07:26
#4
Join Date: 11 January 2011
Posts: 18

congrats on the purchase Andrew, I am the dissappointed person from the earlier posts!!!! From memory the broker said you were located in Australia but if I am wrong and you need crew in Auckland let me know - most of my sailing has been on a Swan 53 and would love to continue crewing and learning on them

cheers

Matt

09 April 2011 - 11:01
#5
Join Date: 01 January 2011
Posts: 36

Thanks for your advice Jayne and Daniel, I have decided to stay with the original hatch. Sorry Matt, all being well will leave Auckland in a couple of months for delivery to Sydney via Lord Howe.
Andrew 41/039

10 April 2011 - 13:46
#6
Join Date: 02 February 2007
Posts: 202

Hello Andrew, wellcome to the 41 club!!!

On 41/022 we kept the original design for the forward hatch because we love it, but modified it to have some "drop down" effect when closing so as to have it pressing against some rubber joints. It is perfectly waterproof. Search in this forum for a specific thread. One remark: it was a nightmare for the man who made it as it has a rather complicated shape.

Kind regards fromFrance, I am sure you will love your new mistress for a long time!

Philippe

10 April 2011 - 23:09
#7
Join Date: 11 January 2011
Posts: 18

let me know if you need crew, have done Opua to Brisbane on an Oyster 53 in 05

cheers

Matt

12 April 2011 - 06:51
#8
Join Date: 10 April 2010
Posts: 32

Hi Andrew,

Your question about replacing the forward hatch as part of a teak deck replacement is interesting.  I have wondered about the ability of Anthea’s (Swan 41/59) original forward hatch to withstand severe weather.  Adlaird Coles, in Appendix 6 of Heavy Weather Sailing, describes the loss of Morning Cloud in 1974.  Casse Tete IV (a Swan 41) was in the same storm.  In his discussion of fore hatches, Coles notes that during the severe gale Casse Tete’s forward hatch suffered one broken screw and three loose screws, which necessitated a dangerous repair during the storm.  Morning Cloud’s hatch cover was completely washed away, allowing significant water entry into the boat.  While I hope to avoid replacing Anthea’s teak deck (and instead plan on bequeathing that job to my children when they are older), I have wondered about strengthening the attachment of the plexiglass hatch cover to the inside of the hatchbox by installing two or four latches. 

Any comments or observations about this would be most welcome.

Mark
Anthea
(41/59)

12 April 2011 - 09:32
#9
Join Date: 02 February 2007
Posts: 202

Andrew, please have a look at thread of 27 may 2008, page 10 on the maintenance part of the forum. This should help you decide.

Regards.

Philippe, 41/022

12 April 2011 - 11:34
#10
Join Date: 30 January 2007
Posts: 461

Mark,
four latches, if not already fitted, are highly recommended and can be provided by Nautor.

Daniel, 411-004

12 April 2011 - 23:04
#11
Join Date: 05 February 2007
Posts: 102

Hi Mark,
On the earlier post in regard to the hatches I mentioned the latches, and in heavy weather it makes all the difference at least on Aorangi. We have four, and they all need to be fastened down or else there is water entry in big sea conditions. Two do not hold back leakage. But with them all securely fastened there is no problem to date.
Jayne Aorangi 47/047

13 April 2011 - 12:10
#12
Join Date: 01 January 2011
Posts: 36

Thanks all for your continuing advice, unfortunately I'm a long way from Scotch Bonnet which is in NZ at the moment but will check the number of catches as soon as I can, in the meantime is there enough detail in this picture for anyone to form an opinion? It seems to me that other hatches pictured have visible external fittings in the corners so perhaps we only have 1 catch. Out of interest speaking to a business friend today, a keen sailor visiting from UK, I showed him a photo of Scotch Bonnet which he correctly identified as a Swan 41 and told me he had sailed on one in the '79 Fastnet race, I've sent him a message to see if he remembers the name.
Andrew

13 April 2011 - 13:45
#13
Join Date: 02 February 2007
Posts: 202

Andrew, there does not seem to be any catch on your hatch.

Please find enclosed photos of the modified hatch of 41/022 with four Fasteners by Protex (part nb 61-1610). Adding seals and modifying the rails to have the hatch "dropping down" on the seals as it closes completely solved the problem. I can send you detailed drawings if you wish and sen me your e mail.

Kind regards.

Philippe 41/022 Soeur Anne

14 April 2011 - 21:46
#14
Join Date: 10 April 2010
Posts: 32

Dear Philippe,

The latches you installed look fabulous.  I’d like to install them on Anthea, but I’m a little daunted by the thought of having to modify the rails.  Anthea’s foreward hatch does drop down a bit as the hatch closes – is it still necessary to modify the rails?  It would be great if you could send the drawings you mentioned.  My email addresss is: jb141@humboldt.edu.    Many thanks.

Mark  41/59 Anthea

17 April 2011 - 19:56
#15
Join Date: 21 September 2010
Posts: 53

Hi Andrew
Welcome to the club and in particular to the 41/411 bit!
Baron (411/033)emerged from an extensive refit in February 2011. I replaced the teak decks and faced the agonising decision about the front hatch - should I replace or rebuild. Following advise from threads on this site (the really knowledgeable SS Swan owners)I decided to rebuild the original. In preparing for racing this year I have seen the advantages of the S&S hatch when pulling spinnakers into the pit. I will be interested to know which Swan 41/411 completed the Fastnet. Here is a photograph of Baron as she was being launched in February clearly showing her rebuilt hatch.
Best regards
David

18 April 2011 - 11:28
#16
Join Date: 01 January 2011
Posts: 36

Thanks Philippe, would much appreciate drawings of your hatch, my email is agl61065@bigpond.net.au. And thanks also David, Baron looks gorgeous, can you post more pictures? Is your hatch to the same design as Philippe's? Have you also gone with 4 latches, if so are they from Nautor or Protex?
Can I ask for more advice please? Please see pictures attached showing corrosion of toe rail under the feet of the pulpit now removed. The yard's suggestion is to clean up as much as possible and then place a hard wood pad in there to fill the gap with the rail base covering the pad, does anyone have any comments or alternative suggestions?
The Swan 41 in the '79 Fastnet was apparently Sophie B last seen in Cape Town in '92 if anyone can add anything to this story?
Thanks, Andrew Scotch Bonnet 41/039

18 April 2011 - 18:53
#17
Join Date: 02 January 2008
Posts: 1547

Andrew
Would strongly advice against using wood over corroded aluminium, that will cause more corrosion. Clean out, fill recess completely with zinc chromate, put thin pad of hard plastic or GRP under the fitting. Take care to leave a gutter outboard so water does not stand there.

Sophie B is Swan 411-025
Kind regards
Lars

26 April 2011 - 21:33
#18
Join Date: 21 September 2010
Posts: 53

Hi Andrew
I am sorry for the delay. I have four Nautor catches securing my fore hatch. The front two are shown in the photograph below. On the subject of Sophie B; she was in Group 2 of the 1979 Fastnet and retired. She was owned and sailed by B H Owen. She is currently (2011) in the Royal Capetown Yacht Club (RCYC) in South Africa and is owned by Mr Musgrave.
Best Regards
David (Baron 411/33)

24 May 2011 - 00:25
#19
Join Date: 11 January 2011
Posts: 18

Andrew, can you tell me the yard you used to replace your decks please? Am looking at a Swan 48 and it looks as though needs a teak deck replacement and I am keen to build this cost into any potiential offer level I make.

 

Thanks

Matt

24 May 2011 - 14:42
#20
Join Date: 01 January 2011
Posts: 36

Hi Matt, Brin Wilson Boats at Gulf Harbour is replacing the deck, so far I am very happy with their advice and work although haven't yet seen the deck, hopefully next week! Good luck with negotiations. Andrew 41/039

24 May 2011 - 22:27
#21
Join Date: 11 January 2011
Posts: 18

Thank you Andrew. I actually spoke to the Brin Wilson yard to get a quote on a full Osmosis treatment, did they do this work for you as well as the deck? Also, are you going for traditional teak or using their Flexiteek system?

If its ok with you, if I am able to buy the 48 I would be keen to communicate offline as regards to quotes for the work done so I know I am on the right track

 

thanks

Matt

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