Swan 57 - New Autopilot Installation

Dear Friends

I have struggled to keep my Neco autopilot working with the kind and valued help of member Daniel Fua and the UK expert Derek Coventry, HOWEVER, I have had a number of problems over the l;ast 2 years (10,000 miles) and as i sail long distance short handed and on my last passage Antigua to Bermuda, it failed again. I am very reluctant to give up on the Neco as I like simple and strong as a design maxim on boats but I worry that the equipment is now getting a little old and worse the expertise to fix them is lacking internationally.

I have decided to insatall a new autopilot, possibly keeping the Neco if repaired as a back up system, if not I would install 2 new systems to give me redundancy.

My question to you all is what should I fit, I want at least one to drive directly onto the quadrant and I guess at my size it should be a hydraulic drive but whether this should be Raymarine, B&G, or something else and whether to integrate (I have heard the B&G Hydra shuts down if log impellor stops etc which I dont want.)

If any 57 (or similar sized boat) owner has any experience or anyone can recoimmend a US east coast boatyard to help me it would be much appreciated.

Thank you as always in anticipation of your help.

Kind Regards

Graham Applin

SY. Nakesa, St georges, Bermuda

grahamapplin@hotmail.com

Hi Graham,

I lived aboard a Shannon 50 with my wife and kids and used a Robertson Auto Pilot.  Apparently, these were the units used by commercial fishing fleets almost exclusively - at least, that's what I was told.  It was a great unit, but like yours, it was old and we had trouble finding parts and qualified mechanics to make any repairs.

I understand that Simrad bought Robertson's auto pilot system, if not the whole company, and that their auto pilot is about as good as it gets.  I would definitely add Simrad to your short list.

With warm regards,

Chris

Graham:

Although my Swan 43 is a much smaller than your boat I have had good success with my Simrad/Robertson autopilot brain connected to a direct drive Whitlock electric motor. 

A tie rod connects the Whitlock actuator arm to my rudder quadrant.  I opted to not install a hydraulic system inorder to eliminate all of the hydraulic hoses and hydraulic pump.  The Whitlock motor is a single self enclosed motor unit that has been utterly reliable and has plenty of power.  I know they have different size motor units for larger boats.

You can see the install on this web site under the Swan 43 Maintenance link.

A good east coast boatyard especially for Swans is Jamestown Boat Yard in Rhode Island.

Hiro

Graham

The Whitlock motor that Hiro mentions is now available as Lewmar Direct Drive. It would be preferable to install it with the link arm longitudinally if possible. In the transverse direction the arm forces add up with the rudder forces.
Kind regards
Lars

Lars,
I never thought about it and, as usual, you are perfectly right.
You made me think of it and I realized that the way to minimize stresses on the rudder shaft and bushing would be to fix the autopilot tiller arm longitudinally toward the stern and, accordingly, put the linear servomotor or ram transversally aft of the rudder shaft.
This is usually impractical for lack of room so it is seldom (if ever) done while your suggestion is most of the times possible and mitigates substantially the stresses.
I am quite curious if you agree.

Daniel, 411/004

Daniel
Afraid I used an unclear notation, the link arm or draglink is the connection between the short tiller on the Direct Drive and the tiller arm on the rudder stock. When installed longitudinally this does not add to the transverse rudder loads. The draglink must not be exactly longitudinal if it is more convenient to put it at an angle, but then also the tiller arms need to be angled.
For big yachts and ships it is common to use two rams on opposite sides, one pulling and the other pushing, this eliminates side loads and produces only torque.
Best regards
Lars

Dear All,

Like Hiro I have the Simrad/Robertson autopilot with the whitlock direct drive.

Due to the lack of space on my Swan38, I couldn`t  fit the direct drive in line with the short arm of the whitlock. And I found it quite difficult to align the proper distances and angles of the short arm relative to the tiller on the rudder stock.

Maybe that is why I am not very content with the performance: perhaps I did not install it the correct way. When motoring everything is ok, but under sail and reaching it doesn't do very well. With winds above force 5 I have to take over by hand (to avoid gybing).

Does anyone know if installation is necessary with arm and direct drive in-line ? Does anyone have an explanation why the autopilot, when motoring is ok and when reaching it is not ok ? Surely the pilot doesn't know when I am motoring ? Or ?

Jan (YULUNGA, Swan38/110)

Jan, do you know how much torque your drive produces?
Regards
Lars

Hi Lars,
The drive is 1/4 hp at 12volts.
Jan

Jan, can you find a torque figure in the manual? Should be 248 kgm, and this is more than sufficient for the Swan 38, corresponds to a wheel rim load of 64 kg, more than you achieve with your hands. Next question - how long is your tiller arm on the rudder stock?
Kind regards
Lars

Sorry Lars,

I haven't had the time to figure things out.

Hope this weekend when I visit the boat.

Kind regars,

Jan

Hi Graham,
I have your sistership 57-22, and we faced exactly the same issue, Neco works, but a spare autopilot for long passages...
I selected a B&G ACP2 brain (already had B&G) and left the Neco in place. There is just enough room for a type 3 hydraulic ram fitted to a tiller arm on the rudder stock above the quadrant. A bracket on the transverse beam supporting the upper rudder bearing supports the ram/pump. I am a professional engineer, and designed, fabricated and installed everything myself as I could not find a suitable yard/staff/workmen to accomplish this task for me.
So far we have sailed 15K NM with this new installation, and to be honest, I only turn on the Neco once a month or so to be sure it is still working.
The real advantage is less power consumption, less noise, better course holding, steers to wind angle and the remote vision RF handheld allows the watch stander to steer from anywhere on the boat.
If you would like more details or photos, etc. please let me know. We are currently in Oz after sailing through the islands to NZ from the west coast USA, so we have a bit of time difference.
best regards,

Robert Ahbel 'Concerto'

Hi Robert--

I know this is late to the party (your post is several years old), but I would love to see your pictures.

I have my original Neco drive unit, which is being run by a Simrad/Robertson AP head. This has worked great for me over the past 14 years, but I'm thinking about a pacific crossing, and would like to have a backup if the quadrant or steering cables fail. So I'm looking for something like what you have.

-Ryan
S/V Valkyrie
57/009