411 keel bolts and lead keel coating
We just got our new 411 to Seattle. I noticed that while the boat was in slings, the rear of the keel separated by approximately 1 mm (1/32 in-1/16 in). The boat apparently was seeping a little water. I assume this is where water was coming in. I can't find through-hulls that appear to be leaking. Is the separated keel a possible source of water? Either way, I need to tighten the bolts. How many keel bolts should I be looking for, and do they need to be set to a specific torque?


The coating around the lead is cracking and breaking off at the bottom of the keel as well as the leading edge. I assume that I continue to break off everything that is loose, but what do I re-apply over the lead? Does the lead need to be prepped with anything to accept the new coating?

Hello Don.

Upon keel damage got good help on this forum including thread August 15 2011.

Had a severe bottom touch in early summer 2011 but got aware how extensive it was only when hauling much later. There was a leakage with same amount water through summer with lots of sailing so they must be extremely well built this area too. Thorbjorn/Ravn 411/36

Dear Don
Suggest it is checked if a keel bolt is leaking. This can be done ashore, but the boat should be lifted so the crack opens, with some water in the bilge. If you see water trickling out from the crack the bolts in that area need to be sealed as described in the thread mentioned by Thorbjorn.
The crack in your case appears to be so narrow that it is hardly possible to get mastic into it from the outside, and the mentioned inside filling method is recommended.
There are 8 off M24 bolts, and 2 off M20. The mentioned torques were given for ungreased threads, but if there is uncured mastic on the threads this works really well as grease, and then 68% of the torque should be used.
The added external layer on the keel is best removed.
Stainless and lead both quickly form an oxide layer on their surface in air, and this prevents paint from attaching properly, but a special procedure can be used, described for stainless in an earlier thread. Basically wet sand the lead surface using the paint primer as wetting agent, this prevents oxide from affecting the bond.
Kind regards
Lars

Dear Don Suggest it is checked if a keel bolt is leaking. This can be done ashore, but the boat should be lifted so the crack opens, with some water in the bilge. If you see water trickling out from the crack the bolts in that area need to be sealed as described in the thread mentioned by Thorbjorn. The crack in your case appears to be so narrow that it is hardly possible to get mastic into it from the outside, and the mentioned inside filling method is recommended. There are 8 off M24 bolts, and 2 off M20. The mentioned torques were given for ungreased threads, but if there is uncured mastic on the threads this works really well as grease, and then 68% of the torque should be used. The added external layer on the keel is best removed. Stainless and lead both quickly form an oxide layer on their surface in air, and this prevents paint from attaching properly, but a special procedure can be used, described for stainless in an earlier thread. Basically wet sand the lead surface using the paint primer as wetting agent, this prevents oxide from affecting the bond. Kind regards Lars

Thanks, Guys.

I'll check the earlier threads. The crack at the rear of the keel isn't wide enough to fill with mastic from the outside. The boat is now out of slings and on hard stands, so the crack is closed back up. The bilge plug is out, and the boat is drained. I couldn't find any water forward near the front of the keel, but there is a little water left under the engine. I'm pretty sure it was coming through the aft threads. I'm new to the boat. We'll find out next spring if my analysis is correct. The boat has a new Volvo D2-40 engine which might be smaller than the original Perkins. While I can't see the aft bolt, it doesn't appear to be under the engine. If I'm lucky, I'll only have to pull the "tray" in front of the engine that is holding coolant etc.

Lars, are you saying that I should remove all of the material from the lead keel? It makes sense because its coming loose in a number of places. After I remove it and clean the lead, do I just prime and roll on bottom paint? Life would be a lot simpler if that's all I need to do.

Regards,

Don

Don
There should be a bilge drain channel through the tray under the engine, and this channel hides the aftermost keel bolts. The tray is not connected to the bilge, and if there is water in the tray it came from the engine.
Afraid the engine needs to be lifted and the channel opened to access the bolts.

Pull the entire peeling layer off the keel, wet sand with primer, fill and fair, and antifoul.
Kind regards
Lars

Thanks, Lars

This will be my October/Nov project

All the best,

Don

Hello Lars and Don, on Ravn, hull 36/1979, the two 20 mm aft keelbolts were placed 320 mm and 550 mm measured from center of the aft of the three bolts at lifting eye. With the Perkins still in there was just sufficient space for access to the bolt when taking out compressor for refrigerator. Thorbjorn/Ravn

Thorbjorn/Lars

Zoe is hull #11 and has a Volvo Penta D2-40 which I think is even more compact than the Perkins. I'm on my way to the boat after work to measure the distances.

Thanks, Ravn