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S&S Swan General - Boat registers in Europe
16 October 2013 - 13:03
#1
Join Date: 01 July 2013
Posts: 7

Boat registers in Europe

Can someone enlighten me on the subject: Boat register?

If I buy a boat in Europe (VAT Paid) Do I need to register the boat? I can see that all Italian boats have a register number on the side. Is that because of tax? Does any one know the rules en France or the UK for pleasure boats where no commercial activities are involved? I understand that boats over a certain size probably need to be registered for safety rules.

Someone told me that boats build before 1998 and are outside Europe do not have EC mark and cannot be registered in Europe – meaning that I cannot by an Classic Swan in the US and get it to Europe?

Thank you for any comments!

16 October 2013 - 14:45
#2
Join Date: 29 January 2007
Posts: 1015

Dear Onabe,

boats over 33 ft LOA in Italy (and I think in England, Spain, France...) have to be registered with local Maritime Authority, and have to have a visible plate on each side. This has nothing to do with European taxes, so if you are a European citizen and want to buy a >33 pleasure boat, you must register her somewhere, but I think this is the same all over the world.

If you buy a boat outside EU and want to keep her in EU waters I think you have to pay VAT in one of the European country. That is even if the boat in question has a non European flag. In some countries (e.g. Italy) you can do a "Temporary Importation", which lasts for a certain period of time (I think 6 months), and after that period you have to pay VAT or get out of Italian waters.

It is quite complicated, but I suggest you to ask a professional Maritime agent in the country of your residence, who will tell exactly how to deal with this matter.

Dealing with this matters on your own could be very, very, very expensive, because if you do the wrong thing and will be catched, the fine could be something you'll never forget!

Fair winds!

matteo (38/067 Only You)

17 October 2013 - 08:14
#3
Join Date: 05 August 2010
Posts: 162

That is a very complicated question ... and "Europe" is by no means united in this case, only insofar as the countries accept each other's procedures.

For Germany, that means a mandatory ship certificate if the boat is longer than 15 m (and provided the home port is in Germany). If the boat is shorter, you can choose between the ship certificate and the flag certificate which basically proves your ownership and entitles you to fly the German flag. One of these two you must have if you plan to cruise in France (there it is mandatory). CE certification has nothing to do with it, as far as I know.

VAT is another can of worms. If you buy a boat in the EC with VAT paid, make sure you have a paper that confirms the VAT-paid-status. If you buy a boat in the US, it needs to be imported to the EC which means that you can and must pay the VAT in the first country you come to. As the VAT rates differ, choose wisely.
Every country has the right to inspect the boat and charge you the VAT if you cannot prove that it is paid, and in particular the French are known to be very meticulous about that (a lot of money involved) but also known to give you one hour to leave the boat, after which you may only get back on board once all the paperwork is done and the fees paid. Boats have been known to rot in that time, following an atlantic crossing.
If you are not a EC citizen and your boat is not registered in the EC, it means you do not have to pay VAT if you only stay in EC waters for a certain time (I think Matteo is right in saying six months). After that, you can choose and either pay VAT (and thus import the boat) or leave EC waters, even for a short time. My Swiss and American friends have to sail to Tunisia for a visit ... and as not every insurance company is happy about Tunisia, there's another can of worms for you.

Hope that helps a bit -
best, Martin

18 October 2013 - 14:33
#4
Join Date: 02 January 2008
Posts: 1547

Dear One-a-be
I would agree with Martin's statement that Europe is by no means united, here I refer to EC-marking matters.
If you buy a classic Swan in the US and want to take her to Europe it is advisable to avoid import into the countries where there earlier was a compulsory approval called homologation, with its own governing organisation. In these countries EC-marking is as a rule required for all boats imported from outside the EU, even if they are built before the magical year 1998, when the Directive came into force.
Some countries, however, realized that boats built before the EC-ruling existed can not possibly have this marking, and have read the Directive text thoroughly. There it is said that boats that were built before 1998 and within EU are "existing boats" and need not have the marking, neither need their sisterships when coming back into EU after being outside.
Classic Swans were built in a country adopting the latter approach.
On the other hand I happen to know that a member of the Association has imported a Classic Swan from USA to France, which is one of the countries with previous homologation. The help from a French yachting industry consultant with good contacts to the inner circles was required, as well as supporting documentation from the Builder, and the original homologation document for the boat type needed to be dug out. Not an easy way, and depends very much on whether these old documents can be found.
There is also an alternative way mentioned in the Directive - to try to get an imported boat certified according to the present requirements. This has shown to be a difficult and time consuming matter, because the builder - if around any more - does not have the required information, such detail was never needed earlier, and there are no computer files with hull lines necessary for stability calculations.
Kind regards
Lars

19 October 2013 - 22:48
#5
Join Date: 19 October 2012
Posts: 44

Dear one a be,
Here is my experience.
I am Italian but I have registered my 44 in France through Affaire Maritime and Douanes. I paid just 400 euro for registration and every year just 150 euro for the annual owner boat tax as it's considered an old yacht after 20 years.
In France is mandatory to have the registration number showed on the boat for motor yacht only.
I didn't pay Vat because was already paid by the previous owner.

everything was very easy and done in 3 months .

If you wish I can send you my Maritime Agent email.

Alberto

20 October 2013 - 14:22
#6
Join Date: 01 July 2013
Posts: 7

Gents,

Thank you very much for taken time to write and try to answer my very open questions!
All information you have provided has been useful to me. I now have better foundation to understand this subject.

Pippus, I am now in contact with a person here in France, Bruno JOUASSAIN, that claims he can give me some advise.

Thank you very much!

20 October 2013 - 19:19
#7
Join Date: 30 January 2007
Posts: 461

My experience.
I am an Italian citizen and bought my 411 in Spain; VAT was clear because the boat had already a regular Spanish flag (flag means also registration number). I could have kept the Spanish flag but I needed either to get a Spanish residence myself (please notice: residence does not mean citizenship) or have a Spanish local resident to assume the responsibility of the boat towards Spain at my place. I understand that many marine agents will agree to do the latter at a fee. Eventually I did not choose any of the above options and found another way out but this possibility should be still true.

Daniel, 411/004

21 October 2013 - 14:43
#8
Join Date: 28 July 2008
Posts: 79

Attached is a link to whathttp://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/legal/Web%20Documents/Legal%20Leaflets/Members%20Advice/Boat%20Registration%20in%20the%20UK/BOAT%20REGISTRATION%20IN%20THE%20UK.pdf happens in the UK.

Good luck

Cheers

Adrian

28 October 2013 - 09:40
#9
Join Date: 22 October 2013
Posts: 1

http://www.pavillon-hollandais.com/?lang=en

http://www.pavillon-belge.com/index_EN.html

17 November 2013 - 19:50
#10
Join Date: 27 August 2009
Posts: 44

Hi Arielle,
I have imported a Swan 41 from USA to France. She nows flies a French flag and I have paid the VAT accordingly. Process was difficult and the outcome was uncertain. I managed to get a positive result at the end thanks to help from many folks and based on the fact that Swan 41s had been "homologué" and sold in France when initially built. Should you wish further information, please let me know.
Christophe
(Swan 41 - Hull #11 - Antares

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