about swan
I'd like to tackle an iussue which nobody may cares but because I know I'm writing to a large and open-mind audience, I will do it.
Does anyboby know what are the main difference between one of the last S&S Swan and the R. Holland's? I read somewhere that middle-Seventy S&S design were much (bad) influenzed by IOR rules. Stephens himself had complained about it. It was also written that next R. Holland design were more "steadly" and pleasant to sail.
A part from the skeg (which is easyer to notice), what really make the difference?
Few mounth ago I sail a RH 441 with a moderate wind and I find it very good, but I cannot make any comparison because I never sail a S&S Swan!!
So, I'd appreciate if somebody can reply to my question. At the very end, aren't RH Swan considered classic as well?
Fair wind, f.

I'd like to tackle an iussue which nobody may cares but because I know I'm writing to a large and open-mind audience, I will do it. Does anyboby know what are the main difference between one of the last S&S Swan and the R. Holland's? I read somewhere that middle-Seventy S&S design were much (bad) influenzed by IOR rules. Stephens himself had complained about it. It was also written that next R. Holland design were more "steadly" and pleasant to sail. A part from the skeg (which is easyer to notice), what really make the difference? Few mounth ago I sail a RH 441 with a moderate wind and I find it very good, but I cannot make any comparison because I never sail a S&S Swan!! So, I'd appreciate if somebody can reply to my question. At the very end, aren't RH Swan considered classic as well? Fair wind, f.

Hi Fredric

Interesting question. Having never sailed a RH Swan I can not say much. What I can say is that I am very pleased with the way my S&S 40 has performed onshore and offshore as well in some rather nasty weather. All these boats were made to the rule of the day. The 70s were a particularly bad time making the boats a bit quirky. Have you ever heard of the S&S roll.. Down wind under spinnaker can be ...interesting.
The RH vs S&S debate usually comes down to aesthetics. These days quite often the prettiest boats in the harbor tend to be the S&S Swans. Ok I am not Biased!!!Anyway, We all have our favorites of these so I will not expand, every now and then I see a 48 and think maybe.. but then I get back on my 40 and ......

Anyway, To quote a French professional Skipper I met in Bermuda. "You have a pretty boat don't sell her! My boss had an S&S 48 and he shifted up to a modern 50+ Swan. We both are disappointed. The modern boats are faster downwind and accelerate faster, upwind the same. Out there though the modern boats are like driving a windsurfer, you have to concentrate on them all the time. The S&S was a joy to take offshore. Sea kindly, a great boat for the people on board. He closed with so be sure to look after your lady or sell her to me!!!

So the question is what do you want?

They all have their merits. To me I want to
a) have confidence in her at sea.
b) have a smile on my face as I walk towards her and another one when I turn to look back as I walk away.

Best Wishes
Mike

Hi,
the issue is indeed interesting but I am not able to add anything new to Mike's reply. I just want to state my sympathy to what he writes: very nicely expressed concepts with which I fully agree. ---------
Daniel, Luna Menguante, S&S 411/004

Frederic, RH worked for S&S. I have heard it said that RH spent some time trying to improve the basic hull design but struggled under the rules of the day. So he focused on making changes to the interior in the early days.

When the rules changed some external modifications were made.

A friend of mine was the manager / skipper of a two Swan an S&S 57 and a new GF designed 56. He sailed both extensively around the world and around the race course. He thoughts were this " if you want to sail across oceans in comfort and saftey take the S&S 57.

If you want to win races around the cans take the GF 56.   

My S&S 411 is an amazing cruising yacht especially when things get rough.  Like others I am frequently asked to let people know when my yacht is for sale.   

Hello

Interesting question with, perhaps, obvious answer. let me share some thoughts with you. Some years ago, I sailed a swan 42 RH in la Trinité sur Mer in Britagne in France, in rough weather and so on for a whole season back and forth between France and England. Boy, I must say, that when the sea was settled this boat went just fine but, otherwise in rough conditions, well, she behaved a little less than fine. She was jurking and bouncing about in the channel to the great dislike and dispair of my crew (family). Then, when you look at her from a distance, there is something bothering about her lines and, specially, about her transom. A wise person once said that nice looking boats also sail well. it is very true indeed, which brings us to the S&S. I have a 47, and I can assure you (am I biased?) that she sails like a dream in unsettled seas and she handles the waves so galantly. She is a real delight to sail in a good blow and she takes care of her crew. Then, there is this wonderful cheer on which to rest your eyes. These generous and powerful lines ending in the bow with what the Scandinavian call: "skeppsprång", meaning that the lines continue uppward giving dignity to the yacht and an air of challenging and agressive look at the water in front of her. I am exagerating? Maybe, but to me, there is some sort of authentic value, perhaps intangible, and thus quite invisible for the untrained eye, in these S&S. The analogy with art is perhaps a blasphemy, but then again, when your eye get use to the lines of an S&S, the emergent aesthetics leaves a very strong impression on you.

Cheers

Philippe

Hi, the issue is indeed interesting but I am not able to add anything new to Mike's reply. I just want to state my sympathy to what he writes: very nicely expressed concepts with which I fully agree. --------- Daniel, Luna Menguante, S&S 411/004

Precisely.

Everytime I go to the marina, I greet Pleiades 41/018 with "Hello little boat."

She is without question, the most beautiful to look at in my marina and I have never sailed a more poised or graceful boat under any conditions. With due respect to the 411, I like the old 41 better, especially the transom. 

The new Swans, with their spatan lines and plumb bows, do nothing for me.

When I reluctantly leave her, it's "Good-bye little boat"...and I smile.

John

...of course you talk to her as you would do with the most beautiful child in the kindergarden John, she's a Sparkman & Stephens Swan!!!


Many thanks Olin, and happy 100th birthday!!!


Matteo (38/067 Only You)