Dorade box on Swan 48

Hi Everyone,

I need to build new dorade boxes for our new-to-us Swan 48 as the current ones are punky. I noticed from the deck plan drawings that the aft end of the boxes are rounded on the outboard corners. Is there a function reason for the rounded corners? Perhaps it improves airflow interior to the boxes, or maybe it's to prevent stubbed toes?

Does anyone know how the rounded corners were achieved originally? Was the teak steam bent or was it a bent lamination? My current boxes, which I think are not original due to the level of craftmanship, have a bent lamination. Also, they are attached to the decks via interior wooden cleats, not screwed from below as per the original drawings, which I got from this forum. Thanks, Matteo!

Sincerely,

Robert Johnson
Swan 48/013 Galatea

dorade box Swan 48

Dear Robert,

most of the Dorade boxex on the 48s are wooden (just a few are GRP), and all of them have rouded corners, as all corners on the S&S designed boats; as you correctly say, to protect your body from bad injuries.

Could you please send detailed images of the attachment on yours?

Thanks!

matteo (47/069 Vanessa)

Hi Matteo,

Thanks for the info about the dorades. I will build the new ones with the rounded corners, as per the original dorades. I'll probably use a bent lamination rather than trying to steam bend the teak.

Here are a couple of photos that show the cleats that attach the dorades from the inside. Note that the forward part does not have these cleats, so there was a small gap at the front, which allows water to get into the dorade when we take water over the bow.

Our dorades have transluscent gray acrylic tops, which allow light to enter the cabin below. I wonder if that feature is original as well? Either way, I like the extra light.

Thank you for your advice and for maintaining this most excellent resource for S&S Swan caretakers!

Sincerely,
Robert (Galatea 48/013)

P.S. Galatea is on the hard in Jamestown, Rhode Island, USA to get a refit that includes a repower, lithium batteries, generator, and new equipment in the galley!

port side dorade with acrylic cover removed

aft portion of port side dorade

Dear Robert,

thanks for the photographs.

They are definetly not the original cleats, and by the way another and safer way to secure the boxes should be found, I am sure a bad wave on the deck would rip it of with catastrophic consequences...

Yes, the acrilic on top is an original layout.

Lithium will change your boating life, for sure!


Fair winds,

matteo (47/069 Vanessa)

Hi Matteo,

I'll try to find a more secure way to mount the dorade boxes. Might I ask how yours are mounted? I have a friend who is a wooden boat builder. I'll ask him as well.

The original drawings (type plan number D10) say, "Box to be fastened to deck from underneath the deck with long screws and, where possible, bolts are preferred."

I think long screws would be possible if I can locate the original holes through the deck from underneath, but I don't see how bolts could be used without some sort of cleat.

Maybe I should try to attach a cleat to the inside of the boxes in a more secure way?

Thank you for your help and advice!

Sincerely,
Robert

Dear Robert,

on the S&S Swan 47 the Dorade boxes are GRP and glassed to the deck, as are in all later S&S Swan models.

I think the cleats you have now, on top of the bolts from down below as suggested by Rod Stephens are secure enough to get you sailing without the fear they could be torn away by a big wave.

Fair winds,

matteo (47/069 Vanessa)


@ Martin (48/039 Vellamo) how are your Dorades secured to the hull (if not GRP/glassed)?

Dear Robert and Matteo,

I actually had to search for some pictures of the dorade box on Vellamo (the box is still on my projects-to-do list but ranges in the nice-to-have-but-not-necessary category).

First, our box is wooden as well, with an acrylic top, see first pic with box mounted in place). The acrylic covers are screwed into the box top sides. Ours is one structure with two long front and end pieces so the mast collar is completely protected (not two separate boxes with water rushing in between). I can see the front protector on Robert's picture, as well as the holes for the screws fixing the cover.

Second (see picture with box lifted to winch level for re-caulking), the attachment to the deck is slightly different from Robert's. We have similar wooden cleats, but they are permanently fixed to the box and then screwed down into the deck. You can see the two (!) starboard screw holes ... I very much prefer the solution on Galatea with the cleats permanently attached to the deck and the box screwed into the cleats, if I interpret the picture correctly. That way the box is held in place against horizontal forces by the cleats, and against lifting forces by the screws. In our case, the screws need to provide both. However, we have never had it ripped off by a wave, and we sail quite a bit.

Finally, one pic with the box removed and the structure marked by dirt. Most important: the deck around the mast is sandwich and not solid laminate, so in our case the holding power of the screws is limited to their contact with the upper sandwich laminate. Using longer screws will only let water run into the foam, unless one uses much longer screws and guides the water through the inner sandwich layer as well (right into the cabin ...).

As our wooden box is deteriorating, it will need replacement in the next years as well. My conclusions as of now:
- attach cleats to the deck by lamination and get rid of holes in the deck.
- use horizontal pins/screws/bolts or install lever locks to attach box to cleat.
Additional suggestions as of experience:
- move scuppers to aft side of box to prevent water coming in (I concur with Rod Stephens -- on the sides, water tends to move both ways).
- use air pipes that extend as high above deck / below lid as possible.
- cover air pipes with moskito web (all of ours are).
Final thought: the construction should be removable for cleaning especially when using moskito web.

Still, I think bolting the box through the deck is overdoing it.

Best regards,
Martin (Vellamo, 48/039)

Dorade box mounted in place

Dorade box lifted

Dorade box and mast collar removed

Hi Martin and Matteo,

Thank you both for your insightful observations and comments, and thank you Martin for the excellent photos and for providing solid reasoning for using cleats attached to the deck with the dorade box attached to the cleats. I will go with that method!

I will certainly also include scuppers only in the aft faces of the dorade boxes. 

Martin, I like the construction of Vellamo's dorade boxes where the rounded corners are a separate piece from the sides of the boxes. It makes construction of the boxes easier as I will not have to steam-bend a long piece of teak. Furthermore, if the piece of teak breaks or splinters in the bending process, I will not have wasted a large piece of wood. There's an extra joint to be made between the curved piece and the side, but that's trivial compared to bending solid teak or making a bent lamination.

I will also make the boxes removable so that the interior can be cleaned and potentially refinished. That said, I have not decided whether to apply finish (Osmo or Epifanes) to the exerior of the boxes, and I'm open to suggestions.

Sincerely,

Robert (Galatea 48/013)

Dear Robert,

I would recommend Epifanes (glossy) as Osmo isn't exactly a good product for the exterior, while Epifanes is absolutely perfect t.

Fair winds!

matteo (47/069 Vanessa)

Dear Robert,

you may also consider a teak oil instead of a glossy finish like varnish -- it is much, much easier to maintain and renew. That also depends of the look of the rest of the deck, of course ... for that reason, our box is currently painted white as is every other superstructure above deck level.

Best,
Martin

PS: Don't tell Matteo what I suggested, or I fear I will be excommunicated for heresy ;-)

Dear Robert,

don't tell Martin his idea about teak oil is a good one indeed too!

matteo (47/069 Vanessa)

Hi Martin and Matteo,

You're both funny! Thank you for the advice! I'm leaning towards teak oil, since it's easy to maintain and will provide a little protection to the teak, especially on the inside of the box where it is not exposed to the weather. The outside of the box can weather to match the deck, which, of course, is unfinished teak.

Sincerely,
Robert (Galatea 48/013)