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S&S Swan General - Swan 40 - Deck elevation near chainplates
14 June 2007 - 00:58
#1
Join Date: 13 June 2007
Posts: 4

Swan 40 - Deck elevation near chainplates

I am looking at a Swan 40 that is in good conditions (sail only in fresh water)except for a small elevation in deck level near the chainplates ( both sides of the boat). Looking below deck after remove the roof finishing all seems OK.Should be water infiltration in the balsa core of the deck or a structural problem?                                                                                                       Many thanks                                                                                                 Marco

17 June 2007 - 09:43
#2
Join Date: 03 March 2007
Posts: 190

Hi Marco,

This is a rather common problem. I have repaired this on mine and know of a couple of other 40s who have repaired the problem using a similar approach. This is a result of over tensioning the rig. As far as water ingress, I have not heard of anyone with a problem due to this. Do not view this as a large problem. As for the deck,I think it is marine plywood glassed on both sides not balsa core. Maybe others can verify this.

The 40s are a great boat. We are very pleased with ours.

All the best

Mike

19 June 2007 - 23:55
#3
Join Date: 19 June 2007
Posts: 23

Like Mike I've done this repair on my 40, not complicated, the main thing is to come straight down from the chainplate to the hull. I have been living aboard for seven years, and know of another 40 owner that has done for more than that.

20 June 2007 - 18:25
#4
Join Date: 13 June 2007
Posts: 4

Hi Marco, This is a rather common problem. I have repaired this on mine and know of a couple of other 40s who have repaired the problem using a similar approach. This is a result of over tensioning the rig. As far as water ingress, I have not heard of anyone with a problem due to this. Do not view this as a large problem. As for the deck,I think it is marine plywood glassed on both sides not balsa core. Maybe others can verify this. The 40s are a great boat. We are very pleased with ours. All the best Mike

Hi Mike.

Thank you for replay my notes, your comments was very herlpfull and I am

going to buy the 40.

I hope see you soon in the site or in the next S&S Swan meeting.

Good winds,

Marco

20 June 2007 - 18:28
#5
Join Date: 13 June 2007
Posts: 4

Hi Fandango

Thank you for your words, and I am going that boat.

I hope see you in a future S&S Suan meeting.

Good winds,

Marco

21 June 2007 - 00:33
#6
Join Date: 19 June 2007
Posts: 23

Hi Fandango

Thank you for your words, and I am going that boat.

I hope see you in a future S&S Suan meeting.

Good winds,

Marco

Hi Marco, where is the boat goint to be located at?

Rod

21 June 2007 - 23:03
#7
Join Date: 13 June 2007
Posts: 4

Rod

 

The boat is going to be located at "Angra dos Reis", Rio de Janeiro state, at 70 miles from Rio de Janeiro City. Althou Angra be a nice place to sailing (we have a bay with 365 islands) I intend to cruise in Caribean sea and Mediterraneum, as soon as  the boat is prepared.

Marco  

23 June 2007 - 10:09
#8
Join Date: 03 March 2007
Posts: 190



Good choice, you will enjoy her I am sure! Anyway, somewhere I have a powerpoint figure of what I did to fix the problem. If you need it just mail me.

Fair Winds

Mike

24 June 2007 - 15:08
#9
Join Date: 19 June 2007
Posts: 23

Hi Mike, I send you an email thru the member section, I've got some issues with my repowering project. Let me know if you got it.

Cheers, Rod

26 June 2007 - 16:49
#10
Join Date: 03 March 2007
Posts: 190

Hi Rod, I didn't get it. I will be happy to help if I can!

Cheers
MIke

27 June 2007 - 15:19
#11
Join Date: 19 June 2007
Posts: 23

Hi Rod, I didn't get it. I will be happy to help if I can! Cheers MIke

Hi Mike, I finally put a new prop on Fandango, this is after The prop aperture was opened, and a new engine went in the boat. So I now have a 37HP Kubota (Phasor) with a 16X10 prop. When I acelerate above 2100 rpms I start geting water into the cockpit through the drains. If I push it more, the transom sucks in and I get 2cms on water in the aft cockpit. I don't know what engine you have on your boat, or if you have experienced something similar and if you have, what have you done.
Cheers, Rod

28 June 2007 - 10:31
#12
Join Date: 03 March 2007
Posts: 190

Hi Rod,

I repowered with a Vetus 22hp. A small engine, Mitsubishi block, in hind sight I thought I should have gone bigger as I suffer motoring up wind in heavy weather. (should be sailing anyway!!!). Even with my little 22 I get this problem at times (sea state) but not as bad as you describe. Anyway, my boats earlier set up gives some hints. She had a Perkins 4107 generating about 50 hp I guess, it never ran. When I got her she had about 150 kilos of lead in the bow to balance her out. I always thought it was to compensate for the weight of the Perkins but from your observations and those of Richard Forest, it may have been to reduce the diving of the transom when under power. I have removed the lead at this point and she is back on her lines. I don't know if this is a solution for you as too much weight in the ends of these ladies it tends to cause them to pitch and stall going up wind in choppy seas.

If I remember correctly Richard said that this only happened when he was trying to push her beyond hull speed. Can you cruise at or just below hull speed without having the problem? Interesting to know as I was considering upgrading to a larger Vetus with the same foot pattern. Maybe not worth while after all.

These ladies were also born with a 22hp... part of why I repowered with my little engine. Maybe they weren't designed with enough aft buoyancy to handle the extra power and subsequent downward force. If the shaft was parallel to the surface this probably would not be a problem. Power boats get around the problem with trim tabs and big butts. Even then they will dig in under hard acceleration.

Sorry Don't think I have helped. Seems like your options are to add weight up front or live with it maybe trying to keep below hull speed.

You have saved me some money and dealing with this problem so I thank you!!

All the best

Mike







02 July 2007 - 04:41
#13
Join Date: 03 March 2007
Posts: 190

Hi Rod,

After some more thought on the matter I have come up with a potential solution. Next time you take her out of the water install one way check valve in the hose of the cockpit drains. These allow only one way flow and will stop water coming into the cockpit but will allow the water to drain out. In theory this should work. I use these inside to stop flow between water tanks.

I worry about them getting stuck and not letting the water drain out of the cockpit but if you install them close to the drains themselves so you can reach them to make sure they do not get stuck you should be Ok. I.e. close enough that you can push them open with something from the cockpit side.

If I come up with any more ideas I will get back to you.
Cheers
Mike

08 July 2007 - 23:29
#14
Join Date: 30 January 2007
Posts: 29

Hi Mike and Ron,

I just wanted to inform you that I last year installed a new Vetus 44 hp engine in my S&S 40 and have had no problems like the one you described with water coming in via the cockpit drain. The motor was relatively easy to fit under the original hood and I am very happy that I decided to take one step further up from the earlier Yanmar 27 hp which was too weak for the boat especially in high sea with high short waves.

In addition to the new stronger engine I also installed a Kiwi feather three blade prop which turned out very well. Not only is it now possible to go backwards which was earlier a great problem it also has a very good ?drive? even at low rpm, and got new life to the boat and finally it seems to give much less resistance when sailing. I was recommended this prop by our S6S 40 collegue in Brazil who hade the same good experience with the Kiwi prop

Cheers

Leif

Sunniva V (S&S 40 #36)

21 July 2007 - 19:16
#15
Join Date: 19 June 2007
Posts: 23

Hi Mike, sorry for the delay, and thank you for your ideas. I just finish cleaning the fuel tank so that I can do a good seatrial and find out how many RPMs am I missing. I had about a 1/4" of slime around most surfaces of the tank. For the seatrial I'll probably use ceder plugs on the cockpit drains. I could not find a drain with a check valve that can work in there, plus if I take a wave inside I would like for the water bail out fast.  I think my problem could be the larger prop (from 13" to 16") which gives a lot more thrust.

Mike I know you told me before, but I forgot what size are you new winches.

Cheers, Rod

21 July 2007 - 19:34
#16
Join Date: 19 June 2007
Posts: 23

Hi Leif, I am glad you are not having my issues on your boat, I am curious to know what size prop you have. In my case puting a 13" prop back into the boat will be like wasting engine, that's why I went with the larger prop.

Cheers, Rod

27 January 2008 - 18:56
#17
Join Date: 30 January 2007
Posts: 29

Hi Rod,

Sorry to be late in answering your question, but I just recently observed your questions.

My Kiwi prop is 17", pitch degrees 21, shaft size 30 mm

It has been working nicely this summer

Fair winds,

Leif S&S 40 #36

08 November 2018 - 10:15
#18
Join Date: 08 November 2018
Posts: 3

Good choice, you will enjoy her I am sure! Anyway, somewhere I have a powerpoint figure of what I did to fix the problem. If you need it just mail me. Fair Winds Mike

Hi Mike and every other swan 40 owner

 

I am continuing restoration of Teragram. I also have lifting decks been on list for several years now and re rigging so looking to deal with. be great to see pics or plans of how you guys dealt with the issue.

I dont see it as structual it is asthetics that i want to solve.

Cliff

Teragram

08 November 2018 - 18:46
#19
Join Date: 02 January 2008
Posts: 1320

Dear Cliff

Deck lifting locally is a structural problem, and a common reason is that the chainplate knee inner ends are not properly supported against the coachroof coaming.
Suggest you send photos of the knees for evaluation.
Kind regards
Lars

11 November 2018 - 08:18
#20
Join Date: 03 March 2007
Posts: 190

Hi Cliff,

 

I got your message, and will try to dig out some drawings I made. It is a relatively easy fix. Requires glassing a SS plate with an eye into the hull below the inside end of the elbow and then adding a turnbuckle and either an SS rod or some SS wire to attach to the eye.  Easy... just messy as you have to grind along the hull to get to the glass ensuring a proper bond with the hull. This is critical as there is a lot of load on this attachment.

I discussed this fix with Lars many years ago and I have lost track of how many 40s have done this modification..

 

i have the pictures on an old computer... I should probably send them to Matteo to upload on the site... mental note to me...

Great boats!!!!! We love ours...she has taken us to many adventures!! We, a family of 4 lived on her for a year while doing an Atlantic Tour... Fun!!!!!

Fair Winds 

 

Mike

 

11 November 2018 - 08:45
#21
Join Date: 29 January 2007
Posts: 709

Dear Mike,

looking forward to receiving the pics (an upload them in the Maintenance section), of course!

Many thanks!

Fair winds

matteo (47/069 Vanessa)

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